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yonglin -



Quote:

yonglin: You were at 西安交大 recently, no? I wonder if you've met them? They also live in the
international student dorm. I had to go back to my previous posting and edit their details out
because it'd be too obvious!! Actually, they are not here for language and cultural immersion, but
for a new academic cooperative degree program between 西安交大 and a university in Europe.
Some are here because it's a cheap Masters program (in terms of tuition) compared to what schools
in UK and EU charge. One is hoping to leverage this "China experience" as a stepping stone for his
scholarship application (which he got) and boost his resume and publicity when he returns home to
open his own company. One explained that she wasn't here by choice because "the program takes
place in China so she has to come". I wasn't sure what she meant by that, I hope she wasnt duped
and forced to put in that application...

The program turns out to be a complete disaster both academically and administratively...

I'll live by your motto: 不管遇到什么困难，还得坚持下去

That's very sad to hear. I was at Jiaoda this summer, and I thought it was a good place to study
on the whole. I wrote a thread about Jiaoda somewhere around here, so you might want to update
that thread with a second opinion.

There were three people in my class from continental Europe. They were all there on exchange with
their home universities (to be honest, I was amazed how little Chinese some of them had learnt
despite doing a major in Chinese). I didn't know them particularly well, but they were generally
fairly quiet and could definitely not have been the people pestering you. These guys were the kind
who were more into 6am taiji and leisure time studies of classical Chinese. There were a few from
hrmpf... English-speaking countries which might have been a bit annoying, but they seldom came to
class anyway, so I didn't find that an issue. As for people not doing Chinese classes, there were
quite a few Pakistani people living in the student dorm when I was there. I think they were doing
some master or maybe postdoc. However, we didn't really mix. You don't have to spend your time
with the other people in the foreign students' dorm. There are about 8 million Chinese people in
Xi'an to befriend.

To add to the debate: it is far less smooth to be Chinese/Asian-looking in China than it is being
white. My evidence is only anecdotal, but the typical scenario is me and my Chinese-American
hitting the streets to go some place we "kind of" know the location of. If my boyfriend asks for
directions, he'll be ignored at least 50% of the time. To date, I have never been ignored.

As for a lasting psychological impact of being called laowai, I had an experience at 17 in Hong
Kong, when i was out at the local daai-pai-dong (do these even exist anymore?) to have lunch with
my classmates: some rough guys in their early 20s started talking in a very rude manner and called
me gwai-mui (鬼妹) repeatedly. I thought it was just a bit bizarre at the time, but a couple of
days later, I was called down to the discipline's office and they asked if I wanted to make a
report to the police. Some of my classmates must have expressed their concerns to the discipline
teacher. Lasting psychological impact? No. And then, the "gwai-" words in Cantonese must be
interpreted as slightly more offensive that "laowai".



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jonaspony -



Quote:

I'm trying my best but there are times when I feel very exhausted, I feel like I'm fighting two
fronts - ignorant locals and angry/self-righteous expats.

Hmmm. I was afraid of that. Take it easy, remember that China is a difficult place to get things
done. Even simple things can take all day, let alone less concrete ambitions. At least you can
speak Chinese. Pity the poor non-Chinese speaking Hua Qiao.



Quote:

but what are they bitch about though?

You know it. It is always framed as "why can't the Chinese", "why can't the Chinese" blah-di-blah.
Your post says it all.

Westerners seem to think they have destroyed racism. Derogatory depictions of other cultures have
been reduced, but I notice it is still fine, in advertising, to depict Chinese and Mexicans as
stereotypes. Hence, calling ABCs 'Chinese Chicken' I suppose.

But in my experience, the racism is deep, revealed in not-so-tangible ways. What do you think of
the following examples? Am I too sensitive?

My fellow expats (quite older than me) used to refer to Chinese people in diminutive terms, "That
little one" - refering to adults. And they (as teachers) immediately disregarded students' Chinese
names and randomly distributed English names. And they also knew how to exploit the kindness of
the locals, getting them to run errands all the time. It grated on me.

Also grating was the ex-pat fascination with Chinese sex. There is an overwhelming drive to change
the social mores, to depict the social mores as having changed already, and to celebrate where
they have changed. Maybe I am over-sensitive, but this seems to echo the pattern of racism against
African Americans and Jews. And is an extension of 'exotic' temptress idea that has made Asia
synonymous with sex tourism and its problems.

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As if
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this? Perhaps its just
the sqeeky wheel getting the oil, just like anywhere. Perhaps I don't like it because they think
they are such 'big wheels'.










miffy2007 -

yonglin: the foreigners I mentioned lived on the 2nd floor in the international students dorm at
交大. We are in a completely different academic program and studied mostly archaeology and
conservation stuff from Chinese (via interpreters) and Italian professors (coming all the way from
Italy to teach us).

I think they probably left Xi'an to return home during the summer vacation, I guess that's why you
haven't met them.

I think you said it right, obnoxious (not to mention angry) foreigners tend to be from
English-speaking countries. The guy said he's from an "aristocratic" family back home. but somehow
his behavior does not reflect that...

I found the quote below from another expat forum in Hong Kong. A local said many "third world
kids" grow up having unhappy memories. The foreigner just dispelled her statement in a harsh tone.
Mind you, the foreigner is living in HK, and yet, she doesn't even try to understand the locals.
I'm sure she's the kind of person yelling "racism" left and right when being called "laowai".

"Listen, if you want to have a crying party for your "tough childhood" and loss of identity, let
me know and I'll buy you a box of tissues (that goes for anyone I may have offended here). Just do
me a favor, leave your whining at home.... I'm just not that interested."



Quote:

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As is
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this? Perhaps its just
the sqeeky wheel getting the oil, just like anywhere. Perhaps I don't like it because they think
they are such 'big wheels'.

jonaspony: it's true, this phenonmenon is called 崇洋媚外. I was in the restaurant with my
foreign classmates - although I sat at a different table with the Chinese students. After
ordering, the food for the foreigners came only after 2 minutes while we waited, waited and
waited; even though we complained to the restaurant owner, our food only arrived after the
foreigners almost finished theirs. The foreigners, having finished first, waited outside the
restaurant and one particular was irritated because he said "what are we waiting for here? Are we
done?" He had to wait because we were still eating but apparently since he had finished so what we
did doesn't concern him. The Chinese students were already pissed off with the food situation and
now his comment. But even my Chinese classmates were upset, they didn't show anything, which is
bad coz what it does is it encourages the foreigners' unreasonable behavior.

Anyways, when I left the restaurant, the restaurant owner pulled me aside and spoke to me in the
sweetest of voice, he said "your foreign friends speak Chinese VERY well." I was like "who?" He
pointed to one of the foreign girls, I thought he made a mistake because none of them speak
Chinese, let alone 很好. So I asked the owner, what exactly did she say? He said "she can even
ask for "bing pijiu" (cold beer)!! At that time, I just 反白眼 and left. I mean, what else can
I say? Chinese people allow that sort of things happen to themselves! What I hate about that
particular person is that 那个英国人表面上装得像个翩翩君子,
背地里却说中国的坏话.
班里的同学很慷慨，每次都是抢着付账，他还是会来一句："Thanks!"
但后面又会说："why do Chinese kids like showing off. They are squandering their parents'
savings."他说中国菜是dog food - 但又要吃人家的free food...对这种人,
我真的是仁至义尽, 他们好像是冷血的,
为什么不发扬中国学生对他们的兄弟感情, 却事事根根计较,
说中国人坏话从来没有停过. 我现在在途学, 因为每一天见到他们,
就会影响到我的心情. 因为班中只有我会说流利英语和汉语,
他们有问题我还是要帮的,不能不管他们, 但帮了以后, 他们这样对我
(把我踢出的士的那事件), 我真的觉的很委屈.
在他们面前好像要委曲求全一样. 所以现在我干脆不上课了. 眼不见,
心为静.










md1101 -

damn, miffy i must say you've been really unlucky with the people you've met so far in xi'an. the
group of people i hung out with would never say that sort of stuff! we all worshipped chinese food
and certainly had respect for any chinese friends we were eating with. dude just stop hanging out
with them!!










deezy -



Quote:

But by foreigners bitching, I mean more like racist attack or making insinuating remarks about the
whole Chinese culture and race. For example, if you are angry about the service of a particular
individual, you should attack him directly, instead of saying "why are the Chinese so incapable of
doing this and that?" and let out a stream of complaints that is unrelated to the individual
concerned. I'm sure you know what I mean because that's usually how some foreigners bitch about
stuff. If I made the exact same statement but change Chinese to American (or insert whatever
nationality), wouldn't you be offended by my comment too?

Very, very true...RANT ON!

Quote:

obnoxious (not to mention angry) foreigners tend to be from English-speaking countries.

As I said earlier...you are exactly right. The Anglos in particular have had a superiority-complex
hard-on for China since before the Opium War. And now they are more mad than ever that they still
couldn't permanently colonize China! (Won't stop them from still subconsciously trying, though.)

Anglo ex-pats are well-known for being the most pompous China-bashers.

Quote:

My fellow expats (quite older than me) used to refer to Chinese people in diminutive terms, "That
little one" - refering to adults. And they (as teachers) immediately disregarded students' Chinese
names and randomly distributed English names. And they also knew how to exploit the kindness of
the locals, getting them to run errands all the time. It grated on me.

Also grating was the ex-pat fascination with Chinese sex. There is an overwhelming drive to change
the social mores, to depict the social mores as having changed already, and to celebrate where
they have changed. Maybe I am over-sensitive, but this seems to echo the pattern of racism against
African Americans and Jews. And is an extension of 'exotic' temptress idea that has made Asia
synonymous with sex tourism and its problems.

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As if
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this?

All very, very true...










dalaowai -

Wow this thread got warped from its original idea.

All in all, it's not fun being discriminated and put together in a group. Whether it's non-Chinese
saying "all Chinese are blah blah blah" or Chinese refering to non-Chinese as being "laowai" or
"waiguoren". If everyone stops labeling others, it'll be a better world.

人是人，无论他们的皮肤是什么颜色。










deezy -



Quote:

Chinese refering to non-Chinese as being "laowai"

If everyone stops labeling others

A funny request coming from someone calling himself "dalaowai."










dalaowai -

I've accepted that it's not gonna change. I'll always be a laowai whether I like it or not.










Yiwan -

Isn't that strange that British gentleman ate it all what he called dog shit? How cheap! Honestly
I find no authentic Chinese restaurant here in Sydney, Australia. Though I only go to those that
fit my budget. Some expensive ones could be good. I don't know. On top of it, I really don't like
the idea of the crap they serve in the Chinatown being called Chinese cuisine. It's sad. As said
above, Laowai in general is not offensive. It is, only when in a context in which someone is
hostile to you. I myself have noticed the presence of self-hatred among the Chinese who worship
the whites and treat other Chinese like crap here. I despise them and never associate with them.










woliveri -

yeah, I'm always called Laowai here in Shanghai but it seems it's less now. However, I recently
have been teaching oral English to my friend's children and to be honest I really felt bad when
one of the children called me laowai. Let me explain, we held our classes in my Chinese friend's
restaurant and sometimes I would be finishing a quick meal just before the class and one of the
children would say, "the laowai is eating". In front of me. Also, while we were playing a game to
help them learn English the same boy would say, "it's the laowai's turn". Ok, it's not "Laowai",
it should be "Laoshi". I am his teacher during this period and he should be respectful of that
when I'm teaching him. If my son said that I would have a serious talk with him.

I have found the children here have become very spoiled because of the one child policy, because
of grand parents spoiling the children, etc. I have found most, not all, to be less repectful of
adults, Chinese or foreign, either in a fast food restaurant or on the bus.

Now, back to Laowai. I honestly don't care at all if I'm called laowai on the street. In fact, my
gongfu teacher and very good friend sometimes calls me laowai and I'm completely fine with it.
Also, my and my wife (a local Chinese) also play and say, "laowai, laowai, laowai" when we see
non-Chinese on the other side of the street, etc.

Also I can respect Miffy's desire to "Help the homeland" I think it's a bit misplaced. I mean, I
also came to China thinking I would very much like to help but found that most are way better off
than I am and the society is much more advanced than I thought before coming here.

So, I lead by example here. I clean up after myself at BK or KFC so the next person has a clean
table and I'm seeing more Chinese do that now. I clean up after myself in the park when other ppl
leave DouJiang bags, or other paper stuff lying around for the park ppl to clean up and now I'm
seeing more ppl clean up after themselves. So it's like that.

My gongfu teacher has never taking a laowai student before me and I have tried to be a good
example of a foreign student. I have given him more of a fee than he asks, I have brought him
gifts in the Chinese way and he has taught me openly and fully. Our favorite times are talking in
the park after practice drinking Doujiang.

So, I think the foreigners coming here should be representitives of their respective countries and
adjust themselves to life here understanding where China has come from and the hard lives ppl have
had over the last 50 years.












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