Chinese Class - Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers - Page 4 -

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wannabeafreak -



Quote:

An RTHK programme about immigrants in HK. With non-Chinese people speaking Cantonese and Mandarin
(謝肅方/Stephen Selby, who was not born locally, is good).

Link -> http://www.rthk.org.hk/asx/rthk/tv/h...7/20070304.asx

I didn't see Stephen Selby at all in that video. Is there another one?



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skylee -

The programme lasts for 20+ minutes. He is in the second half. I think you just have to wait or
move fast forward. His part is from 00:59 to 02:10 in the second half.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

The programme lasts for 20+ minutes. He is in the second half. I think you just have to wait or
move fast forward. His part is from 00:59 to 02:10 in the second half.

Thanks. Great video.










Quest -

Wannabeafreak, you didn't post this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=77o0q3cgkg4

where Sharon Balcombe speaks Mandarin, English and Cantonese. Her Cantonese is the best. Her
Mandarin and English have Cantonese accent.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

Wannabeafreak, you didn't post this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=77o0q3cgkg4

where Sharon Balcombe speaks Mandarin, English and Cantonese. Her Cantonese is the best. Her
Mandarin and English have Cantonese accent.

Very unique person, I was the guy who uploaded this video to Youtube. I wonder if there would be
others in Hong Kong who are like her.










Quest -

Did you go to the service/gathering yourself, or did you get the video from somewhere?










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

Did you go to the service/gathering yourself, or did you get the video from somewhere?

For many of the videos I did searches on RTHK looking for foreigners who speak Cantonese, and
simply did a bit of video editing, Sharon's I got from a few church websites and waited until I
saw her speak English and Mandarin.

I have many videos on Stephan Selby speaking Mandarin from CCTV but haven't uploaded them yet.










Quest -

咁多個我始終最欣賞Sharon
Balcombe，佢唔單止冇accent冇懶音，口才仲好好，係一個地地道道嘅香港人。










zozzen -

I had talked to 謝肅方 on the phone when he worked in the Department of Intellectual Property,
but throughout the conversation I just couldn't recognize he's a non-chinese until he gave me his
English name for reference.










Woodpecker -

I don't understand why there is all this fuss about accents. Of course the foreigners have
accents! Everyone does, even the natives. My dad (from New Zealand) has a different accent to me
(English) even though we speak the same language. Does this mean he is any less fluent in English?
Of course not! Heck, England has a wide variety of accents anyway - a person from Surrey has a
different accent from someone in Devon, and I've noticed at least 3 different ones in London alone
(never mind the more general Northern and Southern accents). Surely as long as the meaning is
there and the tones and pronunciation are clear and correct, that is all that matters?

The primary function of language is communication, not producing a perfect imitation of how
another person speaks. Of course, I don't mean that people shouldn't work on getting the accent
right; everyone wants to sound natural. It's just that when it comes to judging someone's ability
at speaking, I don't think it should be so much of an issue. A perfect accent accompanying an
unintelligible sentence is no use at all, but when a person produces a perfect sentence with a
foreign accent, that is fine: the meaning is clear and they have achieved their main objective.

Incidentally, when I started learning Cantonese, I found a bit of Chinese accent ended up in my
voice just by virtue of the tonal system and the way the words are pronounced. Of course I still
speak with a foreign accent since I don't know enough to hold a proper conversation, but such is
life.

Sorry about the annoyed tone in my post: I find this issue really irksome!












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Learning Chinese - : Chinese Business Travellers Needed for Research Project : -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
: Chinese Business Travellers Needed for Research Project :
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Interiority -

Hi There

My name is Jon and I run a small agency here in the UK that specialises in finding specific people
to take part in research projects.

I've just been commissioned to find some Chinese or Hong Kong Chinese Business People that travel
regularly in mainland China for business and stay in hotels whilst there.

The project is looking at Business Travel Accommodation in the UK, China, and the USA and
basically entails attending a focus group in central London on either of the dates below and
chatting to one of our researchers for two hours, for which you'll be paid £80 in cash.

The project dates are as follows:

Group F ~ Tuesday the 10th of October @ 8:30pm
* Male or Female
* Chinese / Hong Kong Chinese Born or have Chinese / Hong Kong Chinese Residency
* Stay in hotels regularly when travelling on business within mainland China

Group H ~ Wednesday the 11th of October @ 8:30pm
* Male or Female
* Chinese / Hong Kong Chinese Born or have Chinese / Hong Kong Chinese Residency
* Stay in hotels regularly when travelling on business within mainland China

If you are interested in attending and available, please reply to this email having first
completed the Personal Details section below. We have a short screening questionnaire that will be
emailed back to everyone responding and we do this to ensure we get a really good range of people
to speak to.

Personal Details

* Name:
* Age:
* Occupation:
* Industry:
* Country of Birth:
* Group(s) applying for:
* Contact Telephone:

Thanks for taking the time to read through this; it's much appreciated. Successful applicants will
be contacted by email / phone on or before Friday the 6th of October

Kindest regards

Jon


Interiority Ltd
86 Newbridge Road
Bath BA1 3LA

O: 01225 319 833
E: jon@interiority-recruitment.com
W: www.interiority-recruitment.com



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Learning Chinese - Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!! - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!!
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gato -

I believe 黐 is a Cantonese character. Kingsoft's Powerword lists it as "chī,
木胶，用细叶冬青茎部的内皮捣碎制成，可以粘住鸟毛，用以捕鸟." I doubt
that's what it means in Cantonese, though.



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Battosai -

Great
Works well on my Swiftfox










xentropic -

there are waaaay more entries in the adsotrans database so id like to change which dictionary file
is used in this plugin. i got the adsotrans file, but its in a SQL database...if anyone knows
about SQL and can convert the entries in the database to a text file that is in the EDICT format I
can switch the plugin to use that instead of just the CEDICT. i dont know much about doing this
and dont have access to a computer i can install software on so this would be a great help.










bogleg -

I could probably help with that. I need to do the same thing with the ZDT to allow me to handle
the Adso database as well. Just to clarify, does it need to be in EDICT format or CEDICT format?

Chris










nubix -

xentropic I do not know how compatible the starDict dictionaries but there are many useful
dictionaries available including an idiom dictionary
http://stardict.sourceforge.net/Dictionaries_zh_CN.php










xentropic -

I just posted on version 0.1.2 on the mozilla addons site so it should show up soon, here are the
changes for this version:

*This no longer conflict when installed with Japanese Perapera-kun

*Now uses the Adsotrans dictionary (which includes CEDICT) so the filesize on this update is
notably larger but should have significantly more entries (thanks adsotrans.com and chris for
extracting the entries from the database)

*Tone marks are displayed and exported instead of the tone numbers

*Changed the toolbar icon to the green book icon so its easier to distinguish when using both this
and the Japanese Perapera-kun

looking forward to feedback and ideas for the next release, most likely that will be me making the
traditional characters work correctly (sorry) and to do the same function as the japanese has when
you press shift to display individual character information, i need to find a chinese character
info file and parse that cause yea lots more in chinese...but yea the important things are done i
think










atitarev -

Xentropic, it still shows the 1.1 version, please double-check.

Regards,
Anatoli










Jockster -

This plugin sounds very cool, I'm going to give it a run one of these days. Just wanted to point
out a very cool tool called POPjisyo which provides pop-ups with the meaning of the word as well
as that of the individual characters. It also has a very cool study list feature. It works with
both Japanese and Chinese. Check it out!

http://www.popjisyo.com/WebHint/Portal_e.aspx










digmen1 -

HI Xentropic

Your Firefox pop up is great.

You have done a great service to mankind !

I will not download your latest update 0.1.2. as I like getting the Pinyin numbers, as it makes it
easy for me to type Chinese characters.

Could you make it an option in your next release to choose between Pinyin numbers and Pinyin tones
?

Kind Regards

Digby










imron -

Digmen, just to help clarify some things for you (based also on your posts in another thread).

The tone numbers at the end of a pinyin word, have no correlation to the number you will type in a
Pinyin based IME. So, seeing ni3 or nǐ shouldn't make any difference for how you type Chinese
characters.

Most Pinyin IMEs don't distinguish between different tones and will put up all the characters
matching a given sound (without regard for tone), and order them by likelihood of them being the
character you want to use (there are several different ways an IME might guess this, and none of
them are 100% accurate).

As an example, the word "you" "你" has the pinyin nǐ or ni3. But if I want to type this
character using a pinyin based IME, the keys I actually type are: ni1. This is because 你 is the
most frequently occurring character for the pinyin sound ni, and so it appears first in the list
of choices. So, once you've typed the pinyin, you still need to check which character it is that
you want to type, and the number you select probably won't be the tone number that you would write
at the end of the pinyin.

Also, once you've familiarised yourself with pinyin, it is trivial to map the tone marks to the
tone numbers. The first tone nī is always 1, the second tone ní is always 2, the third tone nǐ
is always 3 and the fourth tone nì is always 4. Once again, these numbers have nothing to do with
the number you select from a Pinyin based IME, and are used primarily because it's easier to type
ni3 on a keyboard than it is to type nǐ.

All of this must be quite confusing for someone just starting out, but it soon starts to make
sense :-) I would hazard a guess that most people who know pinyin prefer reading the tone marks
rather than tone numbers, and only use tone numbers as a necessary evil.

So, you might want to still consider upgrading to the newer version.












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HSK Exam - Opinions on Laowai - Page 9 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Opinions on Laowai
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yonglin -



Quote:

yonglin: You were at 西安交大 recently, no? I wonder if you've met them? They also live in the
international student dorm. I had to go back to my previous posting and edit their details out
because it'd be too obvious!! Actually, they are not here for language and cultural immersion, but
for a new academic cooperative degree program between 西安交大 and a university in Europe.
Some are here because it's a cheap Masters program (in terms of tuition) compared to what schools
in UK and EU charge. One is hoping to leverage this "China experience" as a stepping stone for his
scholarship application (which he got) and boost his resume and publicity when he returns home to
open his own company. One explained that she wasn't here by choice because "the program takes
place in China so she has to come". I wasn't sure what she meant by that, I hope she wasnt duped
and forced to put in that application...

The program turns out to be a complete disaster both academically and administratively...

I'll live by your motto: 不管遇到什么困难，还得坚持下去

That's very sad to hear. I was at Jiaoda this summer, and I thought it was a good place to study
on the whole. I wrote a thread about Jiaoda somewhere around here, so you might want to update
that thread with a second opinion.

There were three people in my class from continental Europe. They were all there on exchange with
their home universities (to be honest, I was amazed how little Chinese some of them had learnt
despite doing a major in Chinese). I didn't know them particularly well, but they were generally
fairly quiet and could definitely not have been the people pestering you. These guys were the kind
who were more into 6am taiji and leisure time studies of classical Chinese. There were a few from
hrmpf... English-speaking countries which might have been a bit annoying, but they seldom came to
class anyway, so I didn't find that an issue. As for people not doing Chinese classes, there were
quite a few Pakistani people living in the student dorm when I was there. I think they were doing
some master or maybe postdoc. However, we didn't really mix. You don't have to spend your time
with the other people in the foreign students' dorm. There are about 8 million Chinese people in
Xi'an to befriend.

To add to the debate: it is far less smooth to be Chinese/Asian-looking in China than it is being
white. My evidence is only anecdotal, but the typical scenario is me and my Chinese-American
hitting the streets to go some place we "kind of" know the location of. If my boyfriend asks for
directions, he'll be ignored at least 50% of the time. To date, I have never been ignored.

As for a lasting psychological impact of being called laowai, I had an experience at 17 in Hong
Kong, when i was out at the local daai-pai-dong (do these even exist anymore?) to have lunch with
my classmates: some rough guys in their early 20s started talking in a very rude manner and called
me gwai-mui (鬼妹) repeatedly. I thought it was just a bit bizarre at the time, but a couple of
days later, I was called down to the discipline's office and they asked if I wanted to make a
report to the police. Some of my classmates must have expressed their concerns to the discipline
teacher. Lasting psychological impact? No. And then, the "gwai-" words in Cantonese must be
interpreted as slightly more offensive that "laowai".



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jonaspony -



Quote:

I'm trying my best but there are times when I feel very exhausted, I feel like I'm fighting two
fronts - ignorant locals and angry/self-righteous expats.

Hmmm. I was afraid of that. Take it easy, remember that China is a difficult place to get things
done. Even simple things can take all day, let alone less concrete ambitions. At least you can
speak Chinese. Pity the poor non-Chinese speaking Hua Qiao.



Quote:

but what are they bitch about though?

You know it. It is always framed as "why can't the Chinese", "why can't the Chinese" blah-di-blah.
Your post says it all.

Westerners seem to think they have destroyed racism. Derogatory depictions of other cultures have
been reduced, but I notice it is still fine, in advertising, to depict Chinese and Mexicans as
stereotypes. Hence, calling ABCs 'Chinese Chicken' I suppose.

But in my experience, the racism is deep, revealed in not-so-tangible ways. What do you think of
the following examples? Am I too sensitive?

My fellow expats (quite older than me) used to refer to Chinese people in diminutive terms, "That
little one" - refering to adults. And they (as teachers) immediately disregarded students' Chinese
names and randomly distributed English names. And they also knew how to exploit the kindness of
the locals, getting them to run errands all the time. It grated on me.

Also grating was the ex-pat fascination with Chinese sex. There is an overwhelming drive to change
the social mores, to depict the social mores as having changed already, and to celebrate where
they have changed. Maybe I am over-sensitive, but this seems to echo the pattern of racism against
African Americans and Jews. And is an extension of 'exotic' temptress idea that has made Asia
synonymous with sex tourism and its problems.

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As if
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this? Perhaps its just
the sqeeky wheel getting the oil, just like anywhere. Perhaps I don't like it because they think
they are such 'big wheels'.










miffy2007 -

yonglin: the foreigners I mentioned lived on the 2nd floor in the international students dorm at
交大. We are in a completely different academic program and studied mostly archaeology and
conservation stuff from Chinese (via interpreters) and Italian professors (coming all the way from
Italy to teach us).

I think they probably left Xi'an to return home during the summer vacation, I guess that's why you
haven't met them.

I think you said it right, obnoxious (not to mention angry) foreigners tend to be from
English-speaking countries. The guy said he's from an "aristocratic" family back home. but somehow
his behavior does not reflect that...

I found the quote below from another expat forum in Hong Kong. A local said many "third world
kids" grow up having unhappy memories. The foreigner just dispelled her statement in a harsh tone.
Mind you, the foreigner is living in HK, and yet, she doesn't even try to understand the locals.
I'm sure she's the kind of person yelling "racism" left and right when being called "laowai".

"Listen, if you want to have a crying party for your "tough childhood" and loss of identity, let
me know and I'll buy you a box of tissues (that goes for anyone I may have offended here). Just do
me a favor, leave your whining at home.... I'm just not that interested."



Quote:

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As is
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this? Perhaps its just
the sqeeky wheel getting the oil, just like anywhere. Perhaps I don't like it because they think
they are such 'big wheels'.

jonaspony: it's true, this phenonmenon is called 崇洋媚外. I was in the restaurant with my
foreign classmates - although I sat at a different table with the Chinese students. After
ordering, the food for the foreigners came only after 2 minutes while we waited, waited and
waited; even though we complained to the restaurant owner, our food only arrived after the
foreigners almost finished theirs. The foreigners, having finished first, waited outside the
restaurant and one particular was irritated because he said "what are we waiting for here? Are we
done?" He had to wait because we were still eating but apparently since he had finished so what we
did doesn't concern him. The Chinese students were already pissed off with the food situation and
now his comment. But even my Chinese classmates were upset, they didn't show anything, which is
bad coz what it does is it encourages the foreigners' unreasonable behavior.

Anyways, when I left the restaurant, the restaurant owner pulled me aside and spoke to me in the
sweetest of voice, he said "your foreign friends speak Chinese VERY well." I was like "who?" He
pointed to one of the foreign girls, I thought he made a mistake because none of them speak
Chinese, let alone 很好. So I asked the owner, what exactly did she say? He said "she can even
ask for "bing pijiu" (cold beer)!! At that time, I just 反白眼 and left. I mean, what else can
I say? Chinese people allow that sort of things happen to themselves! What I hate about that
particular person is that 那个英国人表面上装得像个翩翩君子,
背地里却说中国的坏话.
班里的同学很慷慨，每次都是抢着付账，他还是会来一句："Thanks!"
但后面又会说："why do Chinese kids like showing off. They are squandering their parents'
savings."他说中国菜是dog food - 但又要吃人家的free food...对这种人,
我真的是仁至义尽, 他们好像是冷血的,
为什么不发扬中国学生对他们的兄弟感情, 却事事根根计较,
说中国人坏话从来没有停过. 我现在在途学, 因为每一天见到他们,
就会影响到我的心情. 因为班中只有我会说流利英语和汉语,
他们有问题我还是要帮的,不能不管他们, 但帮了以后, 他们这样对我
(把我踢出的士的那事件), 我真的觉的很委屈.
在他们面前好像要委曲求全一样. 所以现在我干脆不上课了. 眼不见,
心为静.










md1101 -

damn, miffy i must say you've been really unlucky with the people you've met so far in xi'an. the
group of people i hung out with would never say that sort of stuff! we all worshipped chinese food
and certainly had respect for any chinese friends we were eating with. dude just stop hanging out
with them!!










deezy -



Quote:

But by foreigners bitching, I mean more like racist attack or making insinuating remarks about the
whole Chinese culture and race. For example, if you are angry about the service of a particular
individual, you should attack him directly, instead of saying "why are the Chinese so incapable of
doing this and that?" and let out a stream of complaints that is unrelated to the individual
concerned. I'm sure you know what I mean because that's usually how some foreigners bitch about
stuff. If I made the exact same statement but change Chinese to American (or insert whatever
nationality), wouldn't you be offended by my comment too?

Very, very true...RANT ON!

Quote:

obnoxious (not to mention angry) foreigners tend to be from English-speaking countries.

As I said earlier...you are exactly right. The Anglos in particular have had a superiority-complex
hard-on for China since before the Opium War. And now they are more mad than ever that they still
couldn't permanently colonize China! (Won't stop them from still subconsciously trying, though.)

Anglo ex-pats are well-known for being the most pompous China-bashers.

Quote:

My fellow expats (quite older than me) used to refer to Chinese people in diminutive terms, "That
little one" - refering to adults. And they (as teachers) immediately disregarded students' Chinese
names and randomly distributed English names. And they also knew how to exploit the kindness of
the locals, getting them to run errands all the time. It grated on me.

Also grating was the ex-pat fascination with Chinese sex. There is an overwhelming drive to change
the social mores, to depict the social mores as having changed already, and to celebrate where
they have changed. Maybe I am over-sensitive, but this seems to echo the pattern of racism against
African Americans and Jews. And is an extension of 'exotic' temptress idea that has made Asia
synonymous with sex tourism and its problems.

But what I find most disheartening is that Laowai are regularly rewarded in Chinese society. As if
the Chinese accept and agree with their lower status. Has anyone noticed this?

All very, very true...










dalaowai -

Wow this thread got warped from its original idea.

All in all, it's not fun being discriminated and put together in a group. Whether it's non-Chinese
saying "all Chinese are blah blah blah" or Chinese refering to non-Chinese as being "laowai" or
"waiguoren". If everyone stops labeling others, it'll be a better world.

人是人，无论他们的皮肤是什么颜色。










deezy -



Quote:

Chinese refering to non-Chinese as being "laowai"

If everyone stops labeling others

A funny request coming from someone calling himself "dalaowai."










dalaowai -

I've accepted that it's not gonna change. I'll always be a laowai whether I like it or not.










Yiwan -

Isn't that strange that British gentleman ate it all what he called dog shit? How cheap! Honestly
I find no authentic Chinese restaurant here in Sydney, Australia. Though I only go to those that
fit my budget. Some expensive ones could be good. I don't know. On top of it, I really don't like
the idea of the crap they serve in the Chinatown being called Chinese cuisine. It's sad. As said
above, Laowai in general is not offensive. It is, only when in a context in which someone is
hostile to you. I myself have noticed the presence of self-hatred among the Chinese who worship
the whites and treat other Chinese like crap here. I despise them and never associate with them.










woliveri -

yeah, I'm always called Laowai here in Shanghai but it seems it's less now. However, I recently
have been teaching oral English to my friend's children and to be honest I really felt bad when
one of the children called me laowai. Let me explain, we held our classes in my Chinese friend's
restaurant and sometimes I would be finishing a quick meal just before the class and one of the
children would say, "the laowai is eating". In front of me. Also, while we were playing a game to
help them learn English the same boy would say, "it's the laowai's turn". Ok, it's not "Laowai",
it should be "Laoshi". I am his teacher during this period and he should be respectful of that
when I'm teaching him. If my son said that I would have a serious talk with him.

I have found the children here have become very spoiled because of the one child policy, because
of grand parents spoiling the children, etc. I have found most, not all, to be less repectful of
adults, Chinese or foreign, either in a fast food restaurant or on the bus.

Now, back to Laowai. I honestly don't care at all if I'm called laowai on the street. In fact, my
gongfu teacher and very good friend sometimes calls me laowai and I'm completely fine with it.
Also, my and my wife (a local Chinese) also play and say, "laowai, laowai, laowai" when we see
non-Chinese on the other side of the street, etc.

Also I can respect Miffy's desire to "Help the homeland" I think it's a bit misplaced. I mean, I
also came to China thinking I would very much like to help but found that most are way better off
than I am and the society is much more advanced than I thought before coming here.

So, I lead by example here. I clean up after myself at BK or KFC so the next person has a clean
table and I'm seeing more Chinese do that now. I clean up after myself in the park when other ppl
leave DouJiang bags, or other paper stuff lying around for the park ppl to clean up and now I'm
seeing more ppl clean up after themselves. So it's like that.

My gongfu teacher has never taking a laowai student before me and I have tried to be a good
example of a foreign student. I have given him more of a fee than he asks, I have brought him
gifts in the Chinese way and he has taught me openly and fully. Our favorite times are talking in
the park after practice drinking Doujiang.

So, I think the foreigners coming here should be representitives of their respective countries and
adjust themselves to life here understanding where China has come from and the hard lives ppl have
had over the last 50 years.












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Chinese language - A Brief Intro on Taishanese (台山) -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
A Brief Intro on Taishanese (台山)
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WilsonFong -

I thought I'd write a little intro on Taishan and Taishanese, since many Westerners here are very
interested in Chinese and Chinese culture, but don't seem to know much about the Chinese people
who live in the same city as them here in North America. I'm talking of course about Taishanese.
In recent years, Taishanese and Taishan dialect have become a minortiy in many Chinese
neighbourhoods in Canada and the U.S., but Taishan dialect can still be heard and Taishanese
continue to live and thrive in their communities.

Often referred to as "The home of overseas Chinese", the first Chinese to settle in North America
were predominantly Taishanese. There are more than 1.3 million people of Taishanese descent living
overseas, more than the county itself. Taishanese established nearly all the Chinatowns in Canada
and the United States, including some of the oldest and largest ones in Vancouver, Toronto, and
San Francisco. Taishan dialect was the lingua franca of Chinatowns up until the late 1960's to
early 1970's.

First arriving to the west coast of Canada and the United States in the mid-to-late 19th century
Most Taishanese worked in heavy menial labour jobs such as laundry, mining and railroad building.
Taishanese helped build the Canadian railroad in the late 19th century under gruelling and very
dangerous conditions (about 10% of them died during the construction). After the railroad was
completed, a $500 head tax was implemented to keep further Chinese from immigrating. Because many
of the labourers came to Canada without their wives and families, the head tax prevented them from
bringing their families to Canada. Only several months ago had did the Canadian government issue
an official apology to those victims of the head tax.

Nonetheless, many Taishanese continue to fluorish in Canada, the United States and elsewhere.
Famous people of Taishanese descent include.
- Former Governor Gary Locke of Washington
- Former Governor General Adrienne Clarkson of Canada
- Former Prime Minister Julius Chan of Papua New Guinea

Dialect:
Taishanese is gradually dying off in North America, as Guangzhou/HK Cantonese and more recently
Putonghua are now dominant. I, along with many of my Chinese-Canadian firends can barely speak
Taishan dialect anymore.

Some differences between Taishan dialect, HK/Guangzhou Cantonese and Mandarin include:
They: kek - keui dei - tamen
Where: nai - been do - nali
Who - sui - been gor - shei
Didn't - mang - moh - meiyou
Taishan - hoi san - toi san - taishan

Swear words:
chew hai: b-tch (literally means "stinky vagina"). I learned this one from my grandma.
ew nee guh mah: f--- your mom. Although this is very similar to Guangzhou/HK Cantonese, the
difference is that this is not necessarily used to curse someone. Sometimes it just means "damn"
(said when something bad happens). For example you can say "ew nee guh mah, I just had a really
bad day at work". Sometimes my dad says this to my mom, but he isn't really cursing my maternal
grandmother.

Taishan dialect on TV:
The only examples of Taishan dialect that I've seen on TV are from the character Hop Sing on the
old TV show "Bonanza", and on an episode of the Simpsons (the one where Otto the bus driver
crashes his bus into the sea and gets rescued by some Chinese people who then talk about using him
as slave labour)

Links/Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishan
http://www.taishan.com/english/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishan_dialect



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enceeno -

yo...good job for posting this info..i'm assuming ur thaishanese? I'm too...
It is a dying language...I struggle to speak to my parents a lot of times when i visit them..

you ever go back ? I think I should go back and check it out...

Carman










WilsonFong -

Hi Carman, yes I'm Taishanese....I don't consider it that big of a deal though. I just became more
interested in it recently because I'm studying Mandarin and I want to know similarities and
relationships between different dialects.

I haven't been to Taishan yet, though I'm planning to do so next Lunar New Year because I'm living
in Korea right now, which is kinda close to Taishan (or at least closer than Canada is).

Anyway, here are a couple of more links for those interested.

http://www.legacy1.net/
http://www.apex.net.au/~jgk/taishan/menu.html
http://aaronjlee.net/kaiping/kaiping.html
The last one is on Kaiping dialect, but it's very similar.










Ah-Bin -

For anyone who's interested in learning a bit more, there's a new book which has a vocabulary of
Taishanese and explanations of grammar and tones. Called "The Dancun Dialect of Taishan" maybe
it's a bit different from what the Hong-ngin (Chinese) in the US chinatowns speak. You can order
it from the City University of HK

Link to the contents page:

http://www.rcl.cityu.edu.hk:808/RCL/...ue/index.htm#2












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Chinese Class - Help -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Help
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jtotheulie5 -

Hi I am here to ask for some help with chinese characters

i want a tatoo that says either

live easy or life is good

i dont want to be like every other stupid american with a character on their body that doesn't
mean what they think it means.

it would be greatly appreciated if you could help thank you



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malinuo -

I'm a little surprised you don't have any replies yet, but it may be because the expressions are a
little vague. "Live easy" I think I understand, but I don't know how to translate it to a catchy
phrase in any other language. It means "don't take things you encounter in your daily life too
seriously", right? If I try to translate it to for example German, it comes out literally as
"einfach leben", but that can also mean that you take life very seriously, but you do not allow
yourself any excess luxury, and I guess that's not what you want to say? Same thing for French
"simplement vivre" or "vivre simplement". In Swedish a close translation may be "simma lugnt",
which literally means "swim calmly", but the sense is more or less "live easy". Catchy Chinese
translation? Beats me.

For "life is good", it also depends on what you want to say. I think it generally can be
translated well to phrases in other European languages. "Жизнь Прекрасна"
(beautiful), "das Leben ist schön" (comfortable), "livet är underbart" (wonderful) and so on.
The Italian film "Life is beautiful" was translated to Chinese as 美丽人生, which doesn't
literally mean "Life is beautiful" but "beautiful life". However, my Chinese is not good enough to
tell if the Chinese audience perceived that as "this is a life of someone surrounded by visual
beauty" or "this is a comfortable life". In Japan I think they kept the English (!) title.

My point is that a catchy phrase in one language cannot always be translated to an equally catchy
phrase in another language.










jtotheulie5 -

i want it to say live easy in the sense of not taking things to seriously but also to enjoy the
things that are around you and not let dreams and aspirations take over your life to the point
where you don't live. To enjoy what you got and what you need.

maybe i should say a phrase like: take time to enjoy the simpler things in life


something that means somewhere around that it doesn't need to mean live easy just on that idea.

i just want to make sure i dont have the the characters from the forest on my body my whole life
thinking it means something along the lines of live easy

this website gave me this character for the phrase
http://chineseculture.about.com/libr...c_liveeasy.htm
but i am not sure what it really means










mr.stinky -

why?










kudra -

even if you know what the character means, you are still at the mercy of the "tatoo artist"

check this site and see if you don't reconsider the whole thing....

http://www.hanzismatter.com/2006/06/...with-love.html










adrianlondon -

我 很 懒

Which, in essence, means you take life easy and aren't stressed.

Although in case you rush off and actually get it done then sue me, it really means "I'm rather
lazy".










dradra -

As native Chinese speaker, I recommend 一生平安 according to what you want. The "direct"
translation of it is the whole life (一生) happiness/peachful (平安). It is a most well-known
greeting words in Chinese. It is not unusual to see Chinese decorate their houses or cars with
handicrafts with this words.

From years of learning English, I realise that the advanced translation is much more than "direct
translation of a single word". Translation is to transport meaning of the whole sentence,
paragraph or article.

Wish it helpful.










seesaw -

My recommendations are
别太累
享受生活
哥们，看开点










Josh-J -

You might want to check whether the characters you eventually choose are the simplified or
traditional versions (if there's a difference). Depends if it makes any difference to you










jtotheulie5 -

一生平安, i think i am going to get this one as a tattoo.

any opinions on this?












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Chinese Speaking - Japanese Whaling - Page 2 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Japanese Whaling
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md1101 -

yeap thats the problem roddy. they grow slowly and breed slowly so if demand ever picks up you can
be damn sure whaling will become a large threat to their existence... which would be very sad
indeed... and probably effect the oceans eco system...

considering demand isnt particularly high now i really wish these whalers would focus all their
energies on something else.



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Chinese Character - Question: Jian Bing vs. Ji Dan Guan Bing -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Question: Jian Bing vs. Ji Dan Guan Bing
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crouchingdragon -

Can someone please tell me the difference between Jian Bing and Ji Dan Guan Bing ?

What does Guan mean here ?



thank you,



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elina -

According to 金山词霸，煎饼：thin pancake made of millet flour

鸡蛋灌饼，灌=倒，means pour (the egg into the pancake):
鸡蛋灌饼是一种盛行的早餐，它制作简单，把油刷在架在火炉上的大铁盘上�
��发好的面团在上面摊平成一张直径二十公分的饼，烤得半熟，用刀在饼壳��
�划一道口，顺势掀开，倒进调匀的鸡蛋和葱花，继续烤到两面微黄，鸡蛋和
葱透出香味就好了。刷上酱，用纸一卷，配上豆浆、小米粥、糊辣汤，就是�
��餐美味又有营养的早点。
http://www.moo.cc/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=5&topic=2651

我吃过鸡蛋灌饼，好吃










crouchingdragon -

However, unfortunately, I can't read Chinese Characters, so I was unable to understand your
explanations.

It is possible to tell me in English ?


thank you,










elina -

I am a Chinese, sorry my English is not good enough to translate it. I can only say: 鸡蛋灌饼
is a kind of popular breakfast in mainland China, pouring mixture of egg and chopped fistular
onion into the pancake, it’s delicious.










gougou -

Ok, no culinary etymologies from me, but here is what I remember from one or another roadside meal:

jianbing is a pancake about the size of a (big) plate, which is topped with sauce, herbs and
something similar to youtiao (basically, flour fried in oil). The whole thing is then folded up
and can replace a meal. I've never been able to eat more than two. (And when I did have two for
breakfast, I would not be hungry in time for my lunch break!)

Looks about like this:


(Picture found here)


guanbing is about the size of your palm, and a bit thicker. A raw egg is filled into it, then the
whole thing is placed onto a hot stone. Once the egg hardened, toppings, which can be sweet or
spicy, are added and the thing is folded up. Of these, you're gonna need somewhere between 5 and
15 to fill you up, depending on your metabolism.

Roughly, this is what you get (although my street vendor does not provide a red table cloth!):


(Picture taken from here)










Gary Soup -

I think the "guan" here means "filled" in the sense of "stuffed". Ji dan guan bing usually is a
fat, disc-shaped pastry with the egg and whatever else fully enclosed. "jian bing" usually refers
to a more crepe-like concoction, withe the crepe folded around egg, bean sauce, spices and crunchy
piece of fried tofu skin or yu tiao.

Just yesterday I returned to the US from Shanghai where I became addicted to the jian bing made by
a couple near our new Hongkou apartment. If made well, they are a really miraculous mix of
textures and flavors. Ji dan guan bing are good and filling, but nowhere near a good jian bing in
enjoyment, IMHO.










roddy -

Matters close to my heart (in the form of cholesterol, I suspect).

Jidan guanbing is a pretty plain pancake fried on a griddle. While being fried the clever jidan
guanbing maker uses chopsticks to somehow make a hole in the pancake and an egg is poured in. Fry
till cooked. Serve with pickles, lajiao, whatever. photo










skylee -

This discussion reminds me of our local (Hong Kong) snack 雞蛋仔 ... 最強民間美食 ...
從小吃到大 ...












rose~ -

I haven't seen Jian Bing in Shanghai, I thought they had been a victim of rapid development!
Please tell me where you can get them!

Wow, gougou can eat 2 jian bing, that is quite impressive, I can only eat one, max.

To the original poster, jian bing is made of a thin pancake of ground green bean flour, topped
with one egg, "香菜“ (coriander), hot bean paste, 甜麵醬 (sweet noodle sauce) and a 油條
or fried dough rectangle. It costs 2 yuan.

Edit:
OMG, you can watch woman making one on this link, it's all there, but she doesn't add coriander
香菜! food porn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUWgX8vkHI

From the same person, what he calls "Southern style dan bing", again, very similar to jian bing
but no 香菜. I think this guy's technique is better than the first woman's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIw_XW-BTrc










Gary Soup -



Quote:

haven't seen Jian Bing in Shanghai, I thought they had been a victim of rapid development! Please
tell me where you can get them!

It was on Huihe Lu just north of of Balin Lu. That's near Miyun Lu and Zhongshan Bei Er Lu, and
just north of Tongji University. If you take the #123 bus, it's within sight of the last stop
before the terminus, just after the bus turns from Miyun Lu onto Huihe Lu. It's also just around
the corner from Cheng Feng Doujiang Dian, the big 24-hour cheap eats place that most Tongji
students probably know (maybe Fudan students, too).

The jian bing are made by a couple, with the woman doing the actual cooking and the man breaking
the egg and handing her the ingredients like the crispy fried dough. Her technique is similar to
the woman in the video, though she DOES add coriander (thank God!) and she doesn't cut it wll the
way through at the end, just folds it in two before it goes in the bag. She's very fast.

Only 1.7 yuan there!












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HSK - My smilies don't smile... -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
My smilies don't smile...
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doumeizhen -

Added the games category, and some things I found browsing, all of which look bad bad bad.
http://www. /images...s/icon_cry.gif indeed

For example. I know I am dull, but I don't need the smilies to throw it back at me!

Nevermind. You just press on them, not drag them... I'll leave this up for future reference.



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Chinese School - 1000 ways to open a beer -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
1000 ways to open a beer
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horas -

*
A funny site about 1000 ways opening a beer (bottle) without a 'correct' opener.

http://stuff.twoday.net/

Below I give the version using a China (soup) bowl:

http://stuff.twoday.net/stories/1778473/

It's a German site and the English translation link only uses machine translation. But the pix are
clear enough to see

Personally I've seen a friend of mine opening a beer bottle only with his teeth, knife or spoon.

-



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DrinkDrankDrunk -

Did you create this thread just for me? Fascinating site, thanks for sharing. I actually have a
bottle opener belt buckle. It's a great conversation piece.

Gotta love U.S. domestic beers; they're twist-offs.










Ferno -

some people can open it with their eye socket










horas -



Quote:

some people can open it with their eye socket

*
Yeah, someone mentioned it too, but there is not yet pix for that method in the 'Gästebeiträge'
(suggestions from guests) there.

To open using chopsticks:

http://stuff.twoday.net/stories/337406/

-










chenpv -

Interesting website. So is it true that anything hard enough with a brim can be used to open
beers? I just saw people open beers with their eye sockets in movies, could be a little dramatic
to me though......










horas -



Quote:

So is it true that anything hard enough with a brim can be used to open beers?


*
They even succeeded using newspaper which was folded hard enough.

http://stuff.twoday.net/stories/105293/#877794










liuzhou -



Quote:

Gotta love U.S. domestic beers; they're twist-offs.

But undrinkable!










Lu -

Gotta love Croatian beers, they're twist-offs and they taste good!










horas -



Quote:

liuzhou

Quote DrinkDrankDrunk:
Gotta love U.S. domestic beers; they're twist-offs.

But undrinkable!


*

Undrinkable? Hmmmmm, surely there are more prosaic ways of description .......

American beer is like making love in a canoe.
It's f*ckin' close to water.
- Monty Python

Why is American beer served cold? So you can tell it from urine.
- David Moulton


---------------------


Beer: Helping ugly people have sex since 1862!

Everyone needs to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.

I swear to drunk I'm not God!

I killed a six-pack just to watch it die.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. -Tom Waits

If you like my Bushes, you'll love my Mountains (On the front of a T-Shirt with bush beer)

Many people die of thirst - but the Irish are born with one.

One more and I'll be under the host - Dorothy Parker

Remember I before E, except in Budweiser.

Some people have six pack abdomens. I have a keg.

The best days to drink beer are days that end in the letter "Y".

There's too much blood in my alcohol system

To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated but not be able to say it.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. - Henny Youngman

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. - Dean Martin


---------------


Drink! Drink! Drink! sung by Mario Lanza in 'The Student Prince' (1954)

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0047537/

-










liuzhou -

哈哈

BTW, whoever said "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" first, it
certainly wasn't Tom Waits.

He said it during an scripted interview on May 25, 1978. I first came across the expression in the
sleeve notes of "New Boots and Panties" by Ian Dury which was released the previous year.

The expression has been attributed to Dorothy Parker and W.C. Fields, among others.

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
Oscar Wilde












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Showing results 1 to 1 of 1
Search took 0.05 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Altair

Forum: Reading and Writing 3rd July 2004, 11:16 PM

Replies: 47

Any help with the Seal Script characters?

Views: 9,263

Posted By Altair


I cannot find my copy at the moment, but I am...

I cannot find my copy at the moment, but I am pretty sure that Quaille's Practical Chinese-English
Dictionary has seal character equivalents for each of the characters it lists.

Here is a...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: chenpv

Forum: Reading and Writing 25th December 2007, 11:52 PM

Replies: 9

請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

Views: 423

Posted By chenpv


Re: 請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

站 is short for 站点（儿）, a casual way to refer to 'website'. So the Chinese sentence
goes: Please do not use the same ID and password for other websites.



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: wushijiao

Forum: Reading and Writing 5th July 2007, 09:58 PM

Replies: 62

How many characters is enough?

Views: 5,411

Posted By wushijiao


Re: How many characters is enough?

Just to share my personal experience, in my second year of studying Chinese (roughly), I became
obsessed with trying to learn as many characters as possible, partly because I thought that
getting to...



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Showing results 1 to 9 of 9
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: dsrguru

Forum: Reading and Writing 12th March 2008, 03:46 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

imron wasn't saying that to criticize you. He was explaining that some of your friend's confusion
might stem from incorrect wording.


Wait a second. Are you using a paid human translation service? I...



Forum: Reading and Writing 10th March 2008, 05:03 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Thank you very much. I don't get compliments like that very often. :mrgreen:


Exactly.



Forum: Reading and Writing 9th March 2008, 10:37 PM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Jovey, the problem is that automatic translation software doesn't work because certain words,
idioms, and grammatical constructions differ depending upon context. Only humans can transcend
the...



Forum: Reading and Writing 8th March 2008, 06:36 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Yes, you are correct. That newspaper is read from left to right. That isn't always the case
though. Chinese (especially traditional characters) is sometimes written from top to bottom. In
fact, books...



Forum: Reading and Writing 8th March 2008, 04:31 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

The picture you give in #3 does show simplified characters, but #1 is just a bunch of question
marks. But yes, you are correct that you cannot translate an English sentence into Chinese by
just...



Forum: Reading and Writing 7th March 2008, 08:04 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Kǎishū isn't a language; it's just the name for the most common style in which characters are
written. It's like regular Roman letters in print vs. cursive. If she can read Chinese, she can
read...



Forum: Reading and Writing 7th March 2008, 06:58 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

No, kǎishū has nothing to do with simplified characters. Kǎishū is just a non-cursive style of
writing. Both simplified and traditional characters can be written in any of the calligraphic
styles...



Forum: Reading and Writing 7th March 2008, 05:46 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Your division of Chinese writing into "simplified symbols" and "Caligrophy [sic] (characters)"
isn't accurate. There are simplified characters and traditional characters. Simplified characters
are...



Forum: Reading and Writing 21st February 2008, 12:40 PM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By dsrguru


Re: Language of Xian

Jovey, I think your confusion stems from a misunderstanding of the Chinese writing system. It is
true that Chinese characters represent meaning rather than pronunciation (that's actually not
entirely...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: chen peisi

Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2007, 06:24 AM

Replies: 77

I Hate Hanzi

Views: 8,444

Posted By chen peisi


Re: I Hate Hanzi

I just a college student speaks limited English, so if what I am going to say is confusing to you,
please let me know and i will explain. There are three point in your post. About the first, I
have...



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Showing results 1 to 8 of 8
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Ian_Lee

Forum: Reading and Writing 5th November 2005, 09:49 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Actually a lot of people in Mainland China know...

Actually a lot of people in Mainland China know traditional script.

When people send mail from Hong Kong to Mainland, most of them write in traditional script. I have
sent letter to Inner Mongolia...



Forum: Reading and Writing 1st September 2005, 05:00 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Bhchao: If I were you, I would say...

Bhchao:

If I were you, I would say "Yes" that I know the simplified script. And before you fly to D.C. for
interview, download dozens of simplified script articles and burn the midnite oil to read...



Forum: Reading and Writing 1st September 2005, 03:54 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Regarding the traditional/simplified scripts,...

Regarding the traditional/simplified scripts, actually the attitudes of foreign governments are
very confused too.

The only country that I find which is totally/absolutely immersed in simplified...



Forum: Reading and Writing 27th August 2005, 08:07 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Actually I am not sure if Malaysia only allows...

Actually I am not sure if Malaysia only allows the use of simplified script.

Unlike Singapore that implements authoritarian rule which mandates the use of simplified script
(actually for Singapore...



Forum: Reading and Writing 27th August 2005, 05:34 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Fenlan: Even though Singapore and Malaysia use...

Fenlan:

Even though Singapore and Malaysia use simplified script, traditional script is really common
there due to the pervasive influence of HK/Taiwan pop culture.

Just last month I dropped by the...



Forum: Reading and Writing 27th August 2005, 05:09 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Even though now Chinese from Mainland gradually...

Even though now Chinese from Mainland gradually outnumbers the Chinese from TW/HK/SE Asia in the
overseas Chinese community, I still think that traditional script will dominate outside PRC for a
very...



Forum: Reading and Writing 26th August 2005, 08:49 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


Regarding youngsters use pinyin to replace...

Regarding youngsters use pinyin to replace character writing in Mainland, fortunately it does not
happen in Hong Kong.

Since students in HK don't learn Chinese (not Mandarin) by pinyin but by...



Forum: Reading and Writing 26th August 2005, 08:41 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By Ian_Lee


My gut feeling is that in the long term,...

My gut feeling is that in the long term, traditional and simplified scripts will be learnt by both
groups of Chinese living outside and inside of PRC. And some simplified characters which are
less...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: shiaosan

Forum: Reading and Writing 4th August 2005, 09:43 PM

Replies: 131

Chinese in purely phonetic script

Views: 10,715

Posted By shiaosan


Chinese characters are soooo unique. It's a pity...

Chinese characters are soooo unique. It's a pity to see (if ever) it changing just yet one more
phonetic script. It appears to be an abstacle at first, but it actually has its advantage over
purely...



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Showing results 1 to 15 of 15
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: bathrobe

Forum: Reading and Writing 18th June 2004, 09:03 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


You are implying that it doesn't matter if words...

You are implying that it doesn't matter if words like these kinda 'fall through the cracks'. In
terms of a writing system, it does matter, and it is exactly the problem that is being addressed
by...



Forum: Reading and Writing 17th June 2004, 09:13 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


This is all getting rather ridiculous. We have...

This is all getting rather ridiculous. We have got to the point where Mr Sunyata is presuming to
tell us that certain characters aren't worth remembering because they aren't worth writing! Don't
you...



Forum: Reading and Writing 17th June 2004, 07:43 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


Actually, 放屁 is an extremely useful expression in...

Actually, 放屁 is an extremely useful expression in Chinese.



There is a lot of vocab that you don't encounter if you weren't brought up in China. I'm thinking
especially of those little words and...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 03:34 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


No need to go to that extreme! :D All we need...

No need to go to that extreme! :D

All we need is for Sunyata to come out of denial as to whether this poor, innocuous,
well-picked-over example is a part of 'basic vocab' in Chinese and admit that...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 11:30 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


Sunyata wrote: Maybe because it's difficult to...

Sunyata wrote:

Maybe because it's difficult to write? :mrgreen:

Sunyata earlier wrote:



The 'so what?' appears to sum up your thinking on this thread. You don't appear to have any
logical...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 09:43 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


I don't see what you're trying to achieve here....

I don't see what you're trying to achieve here. 打喷嚏 is definitely pretty basic in Chinese
and used commonly enough, at least in speech. I would suggest that most Chinese learn 打喷嚏
well before they...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 09:03 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


I agree. Reading speed is an issue according to...

I agree.

Reading speed is an issue according to Chinese native-speakers on this thread (characters are
faster to scan and read).

The ability to write concisely: I know that theoretically speaking...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 01:54 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


Frankly, I think he has proved it within his own...

Frankly, I think he has proved it within his own terms of reference. Learning characters is harder
than learning a phonetic script. As you've admitted yourself, you could learn to read Russian in
a...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th June 2004, 04:58 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


For me, yes, but I'm addicted to characters. I...

For me, yes, but I'm addicted to characters. I quite understand what you are talking about. How
could 'da4' mean 'large' without the character 大 to show what it actually means?

Unfortunately,...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th June 2004, 04:15 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


39degN wrote: Yes, but all you have to do is...

39degN wrote:
Yes, but all you have to do is learn the meaning of the words; you don't have to learn the meaning
and a new character to write them!

Yes, once you have learnt Chinese characters they...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th June 2004, 03:52 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


39degN said: Somewhat disagree. Perhaps we have...

39degN said:
Somewhat disagree.

Perhaps we have a fundamental philosophical disagreement here, but the 'writing system' should
conceptually be distinguished from the 'language'. English has tense,...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th June 2004, 10:56 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


I personally like the idea that words should be...

I personally like the idea that words should be better spelled out in Chinese writing. Chinese
generally view their language in terms of 'characters/morphemes', which, for better or for worse,
has a...



Forum: Reading and Writing 14th June 2004, 08:23 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


I think the point that Beijingslacker is making...

I think the point that Beijingslacker is making is that dmoser's examples are quite selective and
do not properly represent the total picture for either English or Chinese.

It is interesting that a...



Forum: Reading and Writing 12th June 2004, 08:45 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


Going back to sm_sung's tongue-twister, I must...

Going back to sm_sung's tongue-twister, I must say that I was only partly able to make sense of
the pinyin. When I saw the character version it was as though the room was suddenly flooded with...



Forum: Reading and Writing 11th June 2004, 07:56 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By bathrobe


Sunyata, I find the statement 'I don't see why it...

Sunyata, I find the statement 'I don't see why it should be the foreigners' business to even
discuss it' hard to uphold. It would mean that no person (including yourself) would be able to
make any...



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